Brake Judder (Shudder?) PLEASE HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!

F

fxswag

Member
Location
Los Angeles
Okay so I bought my fx about 5 months ago-Everything has been great! So about 2 months ago, there is a slight judder (forgive me if this isn't the right word) when braking. the brake pedal gives me some feedback and almost feels like the ABS is kicking in over gravel or something, and kind of sounds like (but not as bad) as very worn pads would sound and feel. Now this would only happen in the mornings AT THE FIRST STOP! However, it has progressively gotten worse, and worse and worse. So this week I bought new pads online and took all the wheels off with a guy who knows cars pretty well (is a drift instructor actually). So pads are wearing evenly, rotors are fine, brake fluid is yellow and level is fine. Also properly torqued the wheels as we scoured this forum and the internet for solutions and that was one suggested one. I've seen multiple people post about this, and read there was a TSB for 03-04's with this problem, but couldn't find the solution. The car has been sitting for a couple of hours so we go for a ride and demonstrate it a little but lasts a few stops under hard braking as it has been getting worse. No idea, kind of a rubber banding feel versus brake pads worn feel we decided, whatever that means just the words I would use to describe it? sorry if they are insufficient. THe next day he sent me something about maybe having brake deposit on my pads? and the suggested method was to go 70-80, hard brake until 5mph and repeat 10x. now I have no idea where to do this. It is getting to the point where it is really bad, the brake travel feels excessive, and I don't feel entirely safe with the car. Please if anyone has any idea or can point me in the right direction I will be forever grateful. Thank you for your time and consideration!!!
 
It could be rotors. The ones on the 03-06 years aren't very good. I have a slight shudder when slowing from 100+ but under that I have nothing. I am however replacing them soon as there is a a bad squeak when reversing anyway. I'd guess the rotors are warped long as all of your tires are in balance, wheel bearings good etc.

Also check your brake fluid lines and make sure they are all open with no crimps if you have braided brake lines.
 
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Someone else posted a similar problem and it was a crimp in the hard line causing the vibration. Or something's up with your ABS system.
 
Could be a couple of problems.

- warped rotors
- pinched brake line
- stuck caliper piston
- wheels warped / dented or bad tire.... But you would feel this while driving, not just under braking.

Sent from my DNA
 
Thanks for your response, I will check the lines (I don't have braided, just stock). How can I check the wheel bearings? don't they usually make a noise if they are bad? and wouldn't the problem persist throughout the entire trip and not disappear after a few times breaking during the trip? same with rotors? the problem seems to go away after a few times braking, would warped rotors get warmed up and the problem go away? thanks again for your time

---------- Post added at 11:30 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:26 AM ----------

Hey thanks for your reply! I will check the lines for the crimp, but the problem seems to disappear after the car is warmed up? would this be in line with a crimped line? As for the ABS system, this was suggested by my friend, and also was what I was thinking but I have never seen the light come on-and again, once the car is warmed up it disappears. Thank you so much for your reply, very appreciated!

---------- Post added at 11:33 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:30 AM ----------
toy4x said:
could be a couple of problems.

- warped rotors-->is there any way to check this without buying new rotors? Also would warped rotors cease to show these symptoms after they have warmed up as my car does?
- pinched brake line--> will check brake lines
- stuck caliper piston -->:this was suggested to my by my friend, to grease up the pistons with anti seeze (sp??) or what should i do to get them from being "stuck"
- wheels warped / dented or bad tire.... But you would feel this while driving, not just under braking.

Sent from my dna
Click to expand...
thank you so much for your response i really appreciate it!
 
Bad or "wrapped" rotor damages immediately new pads and the opposite is true, new pads never fixed any problem apart from old ones being washed out and it is time to change.


Sent from my iPad

---------- Post added at 09:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:47 PM ----------

I suggest to stop buying new stuff for now.

One way to confirm if you have an overheating problem or not at any of the wheels, is to remove the wheels, clean well the visible part of the outer pads with WD-40 and wipe them dry, when completely dry apply a bright color spray paint on them (orange or yellow), put the wheels back on and drive NORMALLY (do not brake hard or take it easy neither) for couple of days, and then observe the color on pads on all four wheels:

If the color on all sides remained normal, then your issue is something else, if however you notice color is burnt on one or more wheels, then you have an overheating problem, at this point you know that you have wrapped rotors.

If you can do that and then confirm, we can then start fixing the wrapped rotor problem.





Sent from my iPad
 
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I dont think its going to be a warped rotor. You would always feel the shake, no matter if they were cold or warm. I'm leaning towards the piston. One way to check is.... take off the brake pads like you were doing a brake change. Use some old pads and try to push the piston back in with your clamp... it shouldnt be that hard. If its difficult to push the piston back in, you either have to rebuild them, or get a new caliper. Check other sides to compare the stiffness of the piston.

Sent from my GT-P5113 HD
 
toy4x said:
I dont think its going to be a warped rotor. You would always feel the shake, no matter if they were cold or warm. I'm leaning towards the piston. One way to check is.... take off the brake pads like you were doing a brake change. Use some old pads and try to push the piston back in with your clamp... it shouldnt be that hard. If its difficult to push the piston back in, you either have to rebuild them, or get a new caliper. Check other sides to compare the stiffness of the piston.

Sent from my GT-P5113 HD
Click to expand...

Stuck piston causes overheat, overheat causes wrapped rotors and eventually vibration :), what else could a stuck piston cause?

All I am saying is to first find out if there is an overheating problem to begin with - using the paint method since it is easier and quicker, if there is then checking the piston will be one thing to look at, beside the steel and flexible brake lines, brake oil quality and possible brake oil change ... etc.


Sent from my iPad
 
So you think if I haven't been driving for a bit than the piston could be getting stuck during the initial part of my trip, and than operating normally? If you think so I will give that a try. Thank u both for your replies, ill try the spray painting to
 
fxswag said:
So you think if I haven't been driving for a bit than the piston could be getting stuck during the initial part of my trip, and than operating normally? If you think so I will give that a try. Thank u both for your replies, ill try the spray painting to
Click to expand...

Overheating problems has intermittent symptoms, I had it previously on my front left caliper and I did not know and was so confusing, i gave up trying to understand till I eventually figured it out by pure coincidence, the orange paint - that I threw on my all calipers to give them a style - was burnt right at the visible part of the pad on the front left caliper.

Overheating cause wrapped rotors, putting new pads and rotors while the problem still there will keep ruining them.






Sent from my iPad HD
 
Ataher said:
Overheating problems has intermittent symptoms, I had it previously on my front left caliper and I did not know and was so confusing, i gave up trying to understand till I eventually figured it out by pure coincidence, the orange paint - that I threw on my all calipers to give them a style - was burnt right at the visible part of the pad on the front left caliper.

Overheating cause wrapped rotors, putting new pads and rotors while the problem still there will keep ruining them.






Sent from my iPad HD
Click to expand...




Yes overheating will cause a rotor to warp, and replacing everything will do nothing to correct the problem. What is most likely causing the overheating.... a stuck piston. A warped rotor is ALWAYS going to be felt through the steering wheel...there is no way around that. His problem is intermittent, more likely the cause of a sticky piston like you already found out.
 
Has any car manufacturer actually thought of having temperature sensor at each caliper to sense temperature and alert the driver when there is an overheating?

My brother's 2007 Passat 1.8 TSI has a sensor that alerts the driver when it is time to change the pads, they can go a bit further and have a temperature sensor in there.


Sent from my iPad
 
I had this "brake judder" issue back in the days while I was still in New York. I assumed it was a combination of salt build up during the winter and the symptom comes and goes. It usually happens with hard braking. The issue completely went away when I changed to the Stoptech sports rotors, SS brake lines and Akebono ceramic pads. I did not really found out what was the reason for that issue, I guess it fixed itself when I changed most of the brake components.

On a different note, I still regret not taking the mod a notch higher. I should have opened my wallet a little bit more went straight for BBK and call it a day.
 
Hey Guys,

The FX at home currently has the same problem. The only thing is I no longer get those sporadic judders from the passenger rear. I now get a constant sounds similar to scraping and rattling like the abs is trying to kick in. I just ended up parking the car, looking to take it to my mechanic but he's on vacation for a week and will need the car soon. I noticed this etch around the rotor of the passenger rear and after reading this thread I think I might have a seize slider or something along those lines. I've attached some photos what do you guys think? Any input is greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

9189150974


9189157148
 
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