Performance Long Block

N

NaughtyNori

Member
Location
Jersey
Hey guys... I'm in a dilema... Just found out from the dealer that I need to replace my engine. The tech ain't sure if my head gasket is blown and causing air to enter the cooling system thus making my engine over heat or I somehow, somewhere have a hairline crack somewhere on the aluminum block/heads that's the culprit.

So my question... I'm leaning more into replacing and getting a new long block. My original plan with my original engine included in getting a Stillen Supercharger to get some nice HP gains without digging into the engine. But now, all doors are open... New Stock VQ35DE, Used Stock VQ35DE, Modified VQ35DE or Stroked VQ35DE...

Looking at engines from Import Parts Pro, Altered Atmosphere, GTM.... Or should I just stick with a stock engine and build around my car slowly? FYI, my car is all stock...

Any suggestions would be much appreciated...
 
What do you mean by built? As far as a budget, below $10K... I wan't to get the most for my money... If a SC or T is included in this, that would be great! But mostly I want something reliable... My original Engine only lasted 99K miles and being in Jersey, it's going to be my primary vehicle so it's gotta be up for the winter task for at least a year or two.

I'm reading alot on the other websites who are stating Basic, Stage 1,2,3... But what about compression ratio's and other mods to look for when purchasing an after market long block... I want a reputable company with a warranty.

My dealer here in Jersey has been great. I just purchased another '06 for my wife so I'd prefer to stick with them and have them do the swap. Just don't trust anyone else with my vehicles.

Or should I really be looking at a real performance shop?
 
The stock engine should be plenty strong enough if you are running with minimal mods, if that is what you are asking. I know someone who sprays nitrous on his stock block and has over 100k miles, and he made more power than most generally stock VQ's at a dyno day I went to. In other words, he's beaten on his stock block and it still runs fine.
 
Here's where I'm at...

I need a new engine... Head gasket blew and dealer said it's best just to replace the long block. They gave me a price for a new remanufactured stock VQ35DE of approx. $8K (includes install labor of $2K).

Don't want to get one from the junk yard because I want a warranty/guarantee that the engine is flawless.

The dealer said if I could find an engine myself, then have it shipped to them and they will do the install.

So I was looking at built long blocks from GTM or AAM... Their price is comparable to the quote that was given to me by my dealer for a STOCK engine.

So, what should I do??? GTM and AAM are built engines. Looking at the stage #1 long blocks. Should I order it with stock compression? Looking at either Stillen Stage 4 or JWT in the future (another 2 years).

Thanks...
 
I guess if you could get a built engine for the same price as a stock engine, might as well do it. But then you need to know how you want to build it.
 
And that's where I'm stuck at... I know I want to get some extra HP from FI but not sure if I'll go for Stillen or Turbo setup. Like I said, that's at least 2 years away. But being that I am now going to purchase a built motor, I want to know what are my choices and any recommendations would be greatly appreciated.
 
That's the main issue... Actually, they are not 100% sure it's the head gasket or a hairline crack on the block. Somehow, air is being introduced into the cooling system from either a blown head gasket or cracked block. The engine has over heated several times now just trying to diagnose this and being an aluminum block the mating surface between the block and heads could be warped. So the best bet is to replace the entire long block.
 
NaughtyNori said:
That's the main issue... Actually, they are not 100% sure it's the head gasket or a hairline crack on the block. Somehow, air is being introduced into the cooling system from either a blown head gasket or cracked block. The engine has over heated several times now just trying to diagnose this and being an aluminum block the mating surface between the block and heads could be warped. So the best bet is to replace the entire long block.
Click to expand...

I agree that it's the best option if money is no object or if the block AND heads are warped, but if the gasket really is the only issue then replacing the entire long block is an extremely expensive example of "overkill". It would be like saying "well, I hit a curb the other day and either my tie rod or my entire front suspension system is bent, so I'm going to replace the whole system".

Again, if several grand that may not be necessary is no big deal to you, go for it. If it was me, I'd spend a little money on a good mechanic (not the stealership) and figure out what is actually the problem.

If you end up really needing a new long block, you will save tons of money by having someone other than the dealer do the install.
 
Nori-

Outside the logic behind the replacement, I think I can help you out with what makes sense. I've done a lot of this research in prep for installing a turbo system into my FX.

Built engine - this refers to upgrading/improving the internal components of your engine to withstand greater forces (i.e. HP and TQ). The stock engine is capable of 375 - 425whp, without upgrading your engine internals. I should mention that the engine can still blow up at these power levels with a bad tune. Tuning (ECU) will be the key to long term reliability.

Low end (low end of the engine) build generally consists (I'm simplifying) of new forged pistons and connecting rods. If you wanted to change compression, getting different pistons is one way to do that. The first stock component to break in the VQ are usually the rods at higher horsepower.

High end build (upper part of the engine) generally consists of valves, valve springs and cams. If you do plan to change the compression by getting new pistons OR by increasing the cylinder bore size and complementing that with new pistons, you will most need to build the high end as well.

With that simplified explanation, my recommendation would be to leave the compression at stock levels.

You need to have a power goal in mind in order to figure out what makes sense. There are a bunch of systems that are impacted by stepping up power levels. If you want to aim for 375 - 400 whp, you can leave the engine internals alone, but need to upgrade your fuel pump, injectors and spark plugs, plus get an aftermarket EMS (engine management system). I've heard it's possible to tune and use the stock ECU at these power levels, but haven't seen any examples. Best bet would be to go with an EMS computer with which a performance shop is comfortable and has experience tuning.

Since you think a S/C or Turbo is a couple years down the road, then I think that pretty much locks you into staying with stock internals and stock compression unless you are willing to spend more money now, rather than later.

This is probably enough for you to chew on right now and I'm sure it will spark other questions.
 
it will be almost impossible to confirm weather it's just the gaskets or more serious without teardown... it is also slightly possible that teardown can reveil no other damage, reassemble with new headgaskets only to THEN find out that there was indeed another problem... I agree with the "best bet" of just replacing the engine... otherwise it could wind up costing you much more to try & save some $$$ in the end

since your going there anyway, a step up from a regular rebuilt, something with just forged pistons & better rods alone would be more than enough I'd say.. it'll cost a little more or a lot later, better to go with a mild built motor now I'd say, nothing crazy, just a step up from stock, forged pistons & better rods, that's it. don't need to go crazy with a sleeved & forged crank monster, but a mild build probably won't be way more expensive than a regular rebuilt stock really...
 
Why don't you find a FI 350z or G35 setup that you like and try to duplicate that on the FX35? There are a lot of examples you can find by reading on 350z/g35 forums such as FI on stock motor and what is safe to boost without building internals or go all out built engine with maximum boost.

You'll read stories of blown engines or successful FI systems that are reliable. I like NA, maybe you can try this out:
http://www.gtmotorsports.com/project_car.php?vehicleid=17&featured_vehicle=yes&page=1

=)
 
Thanks for the replies...

TurboCad, you hit it right on. I don't want to waste money and see if I could get away with just a new head gasket, to then find out that the problem is something else.

So, I'm just going to go with a step up from stock. Been researching the net and reading everything these past 48 hours. Jumbosrule, you def gave me alot to chew on after reading your post. Thanks!

I've narrowed it down to a few choices. GTM Motorsport, AAM and Import Parts Pro. I've provided links to the engine packages that I'm looking at.
http://www.gtmotorsports.com/product.php?productid=16616&cat=473&page=1
http://www.alteredatmosphere.com/mm...ode=AAM&Product_Code=AAM35M-LB1&Category_Code=
http://www.importpartspro.com/st1vqloblni3.html

I've contacted all three and Kyle at IPP has been great. G35 and Z forums have really gave him and his company plenty of Props! lol... On the other hand, GTM has had their share of complaints and kinda turned me off. But not knocking them, I'm sure they do great work. But forum complaints and communications mean alot. AAM looks killer as well, but at a premium $$$...

So, IPP looks like a winner. Would like your input. Also, being that forced induction is going to be way in the future, I was thinking of bumping the compression slightly from 10.3:1 to 11.0:1. My logic is that being a slightly built engine, if I do plan to go with FI, I can do mild boost with good results, providing I have a good tune.

Just an example, Stillen Stage 2 looks pretty conservative, so with a bump in compression, should give it an extra advantage above stock. Again, providing I have a good tune. On the other hand, going down to say 9.0:1 and driving around with less performance for a year or two without FI would suck. And who knows what can happen in a year or two... Ya feel me?

Am I being logical here? What do you guys think on the packages?

---------- Post added at 11:31 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:29 AM ----------

Chedman13, that V8 by GTM is NUTZ!!! I like it too.... But crazy dough$$$!!!
 
Changing compression now means getting new cams - like I said, costing you more $$$ now. I'm not positive you MUST get new cams, but if not your fuel efficiency and power will drop significantly and you might be hurting your new engine with the stronger possibility of A/F detonation.

If you are thinking S/C instead of turbo, I honestly don't see the benefit for changing compression just because of the expense - the gains you will get over stock internals won't justify the cost in a low boost application. I do agree that getting forged rods & pistons would just be a safe thing to do if the price is right. But changing compression would force you into additional costs (cams) that don't make sense if you are not adding boost now.

Turbocad - back me up or expand on the cams?
 
Just found this searching the web, this is a great price for a built VQ35DE long block. It was built by Sound Performance, a known VQ tuner in Chicagoland area (actually pretty close to where I live).

http://www.nissanclub.com/forums/parts-sale-fs/300425-built-vq35de-longblock-5000-shipped.html

Built VQ35DE Longblock $5000 Shipped! Hello everyone! I am new to the forums but I have been a Nissan 350z owner since the beginning of 2005. I have had two custom single turbo kits on my Z along with one custom v-mount supercharger kit. In 2009 I had my motor built by Sound Performance in Chicago for my latest single turbo kit. The goal was for 700whp but unfortunately some electrical issues related to a shorted stock ECU made me put the car away for the year. A bit more pumped this year I have decided to just put an LS1 in the car and I just picked it up this weekend. For that reason I am selling my built motor from my 350z for a steal of a price just to help pay for the rest of my LS1 project. If you would like a bit more information on me I have a thread in the New Member section.

Engine Specs:
1) Eagle ESP Rods
2) Arias .020" OB 8.8:1 Pistons
3) Cosworth Main Bearings
4) Cosworth Journal Bearings
5) Cosworth Thrust Washers
6) HKS Headgasket
7) ARP Headstuds
8) ARP Mainstuds
9) Polished Crank
10) Powder Coated Parts

The motor has 40 miles on it that were during the break in process and during the time where I found out my stock ECU was messing with my UTEC. Runs great and did a compression test and all cylinders came in at between 150-155psi. Buyer should still break in motor properly upon install. Engine does not include accessories such as the intake manifold, alternator, etc.

Looking to let go for $5000 Shipped OBO!!!!! View attachment 202857View attachment 202857

Feel free to PM me or email me at Z33art@hotmail.com with any questions. I am located in Franklin Wisconsin near Milwaukee and I would work out a significantly cheaper price for pickupView attachment 202859.

View attachment 202860
View attachment 202861
View attachment 202862
 
Not sure if IPP offers stock compression. I know AAM only offeres either 9.0:1 or 11.0:1 performance long block engine packages. I am assuming, that is the case with IPP.

I'm going by what Kyle at IPP is recommending for my application '03 FX35 AWD but def interested in your input for cams/CR info.

I want to make a solid good educated choice.

And I saw that engine for sale the other day as well. Looks like a crazy deal. But looking at the info on that engine, without a turbo or FI in my current budget and being a year or two out, it would be a waste. Please correct me if I'm wrong...
 
personally, with any thoughts of FI at all, I would not raise the compression ratio. a higher compression ratio now will increase your chances of detonation after the FI big time, & detonation kills FI motors more than anything & everything else combined. personally if you are pretty sure you will FI then I would probably shoot for ~9.5:1-10:1. you will decrease volumetric efficiency now & see a slight power loss, but it will be well worth it later, & the difference would not be huge & turn the car into a pig really, it will be slightly less strong than stock though of course assuming all else is equal.

going back to what jumbo has said, if you did increase the compression ratio to 11:1, you would, just by that, be increasing the VE of the engine & that alone will make a bit more power, where cams & heads would come into play is opening up the restriction & allowing even more VE with the higher compression ratio, so normally higher compression ratio would want head work to take full advantage of the potential, but it is not absolutely necessary either.

what I would suggest if you don't want to make sacrifices now, but also prepare for the eventual FI would be to drop the compression ratio a bit, & then do some head work & maybe cams too. this will bring the motor back up to current power levels with no real sacrifices now at all & also be well prepared for the eventual FI, only issue is that the head & cam work can be almost half as much $$ as the eventual FI will be, so it all becomes a matter of trade offs & compromises really.

if your sure you will FI then drop the compression slightly, if FI is a possibility but still a big maybe then go with stock compression. the only way I'd raise the compression would be if you knew you were never going to FI & plan on just building a stronger NA engine then raise the compression, otherwise no way a far as I'm concerned.

detonation is evil, detonation & detonation induced pre ignition is what will kill your FI engine & higher compression ratio will only support & increase the chances of this happening with FI

you really need to decide weather FI is inevitable or just a consideration at this point, if it's just a consideration then go stock compression ratio.

I don't know how technical you are or plan to be, but if you want to read a very good condensed explanation of detonation & pre ignition & try to understand more about the biggest FI killer that takes out almost all FI engines when they do blow then here is a good read to begin to understand this: ///2426
 
Good info... Thanks turbocad.

Thanks for everyone's input. Also, a nice shout out to the guys at Stillen for their quick response.

So, leaning on keeping the CR stock at 10.3:1 because FI is a long way's out and like I said, who knows what a year or two might bring. Just had to look at all the possibilities with this build.

Thanks again guys...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top