Tire siping

T

tchuck

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Location
Portland, OR
I had my new Parada spec-x's installed about a month or so ago and also had them "siped". Here's a web link for an explanation: http://www.sipers.com/index_large.asp
The way it was explained to me there are no downsides but it was a tire jockey/salesman doing the explaining so needless to say I'm a bit skeptical. For $16/tire or whatever it was I thought I would try it out. So far I can't say I'm amazed. I have way more traction than I did with my bald Goodyear Eagles, but that's not saying much. I can still break the tires loose in the same situations I could before, obviously it takes way more effort, but I just got new tires... Just wondering if any of you have done the same and what you think. I'm especially interested to hear if any of you have had it both ways (new tires siped and new tires unsiped) on an FX.
Thanks!
 
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I think I sipe naturally over time. besides, I love to get them loose. I dont think I would cut up my tires like that even if it were free. Tire wasnt designed with that feature, so why do it?

---------- Post added at 10:19 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:18 PM ----------

On another note, could be harder on your running gear. Tires are meant to give a bit
 
gto said:
I think I sipe naturally over time....
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Sipe naturally over time? How could that happen?

gto said:
.... Tire wasnt designed with that feature, so why do it?
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Your FX wasn't designed with any of this stuff either: Crawford V5 Plenum / TB Spacer / Stillen CAI / UTR CF Tube / NISMO Catback / TS ECU FLASH / GG 10wire Ground / 22 Gianelle V5s / Hankook Ventus ST RH06 / Eibach Pro Kit / GTSPEC Bracing: Rear, Lower Engine Tie, Mid Ladder / Stillen STB / Rr Sway / Mazzur M3 Rear Lip Spoiler / Psprt X50 / i-POD.G5
Like I said, it was described to me as an improvement, like any other. Parada spec-x's are not exactly the best tires out there. I don't think it would be impossible to improve upon them.

gto said:
....On another note, could be harder on your running gear. Tires are meant to give a bit
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I don't understand how siping would affect the tires "give"... Did you see the link? I don't think we're on the same page. Maybe it's me that's :confused:.


This is how it looks:
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StuLax18 said:
Cute attitude.

Anyway, I thought siping involved small cuts in the tire? Your's sure look cut up.
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Attitude? I guess I am the one who's confused...

I assure you that picture is my siped tires. I took it 2 minutes before I posted it. It does look a little more severe than when I had it done though, which is part of the reason I posted this thread.
 
ghettojiggalo said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siping_(rubber)

useful in some areas, but not for my climate
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Interesting. Discount Tire actually extended the warranty (their warranty I assume, maybe not the manufacturers) as part of the siping deal. It does rain here 9 months out of the year though which could be why. Good thing I don't take the FX to the track!

---------- Post added at 12:03 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:01 AM ----------
ghettojiggalo said:
i'm curious, did you get a chance to feel the quality of your ride b4 siping? if it added any traction then there must be a trade-off even if its unnoticeable...
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That would have been smart, but unfortunately not. I had it done when they installed the tires. :tdown:
 
Why would you cut up brand new tires like that? I'm sure the traction it adds is minuscule and you are basically making wearing the tires a quicker process...
 
Microsiping can dramatically improve tire traction in rain and snow. However, microsiped tires may also have increased road noise and tire wear when operated on dry surfaces. ConsumerReports.org recommends against adding more than "the sipes that your tires come with" because of longevity and dry performance. Some companies claim that microsiped tires reduce tire friction heat and tire wear and extends the life of the tire.

There isn't a lot of independent information available about tire siping. Most of what's on the Web is either advertising claims or testimonials from car buffs.
The automotive experts at Consumer Reports advise motorists to steer clear of siping. The magazine's Eugene Petersen told me "there's no question siping gives a tire more edges to grip the road," but he cautioned, "it can alter the tread pattern so the tire wears more quickly."
Consumer Reports gives another reason for recommending against siping - they say tire makers are "concerned about this practice" because it changes the tire's original design.
Dan Zalinsky with the Rubber Manufacturers Association verified that tire makers "have some difficulties with post-manufacturing enhancements that cut into the tire." If a consumer has a concern about grip, he said, they should look a tire that matches their needs, rather than trying to alter the treads on the tire they selected.
I also spoke Andy Pomeroy, Regional Automotive Manager for AAA Washington (www.aaawa.com) who pointed out that today's passenger tires are significantly better than the tires that siping was designed to help. "Tire manufacturers have engineered their tires to find the best balance of tire wear, traction and noise in a particular tread pattern or rubber compound," he says.
Pomeroy, who is also an ASE Master Technician, spoke to a number of major tire makers, and was told that "adding siping to a tire will change the way the tread wears."
Whether you believe in siping or you're a skeptic, one thing everyone agrees on - some tires cannot be siped; that would include high-end performance tires or tires that have been siped at the factory. Some snow tires now come pre-sipe.


As is often the case, there are compromises. Winter tires, and "mud and snow" tires, may have thousands of sipes and give good traction. But, they may feel "squirmy" on a warm, dry road. Slicks on dry roads give maximum traction. These have no sipes, no grooves, and no tread blocks. They also have very poor traction however on even slightly wet surfaces. Tire manufacturers use different tread rubber compounds and tread designs for different tires' usages.

---------- Post added at 10:04 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:50 AM ----------

So it looks like it may have some advantages for Winter driving, but for performance on dry, & heat dissipation in general, this is something one should probably stay clear of.
. . & Chuck, no reason to get 'smart' with me when asking for some opinions. Adding some proven bolt-ons to the car are a bit differnt than hacking up your rubber. Probably the most important item on the car, the one thing you hope doesnt fail when you're traveling 100+ on the highway or as you're tearing up a canyon road.
& I meant that the tire should 'give'? Maybe more like break free. How many cars have broke their pumpkins on the drag strip cuz they had too much grip outa the hole? Many..
But that was just a thought. That maybe toooo much grip at the start will add additional wear. No doubt it will.
 
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gto said:
. . & Chuck, no reason to get 'smart' with me when asking for some opinions. Adding some proven bolt-ons to the car are a bit different than hacking up your rubber. Probably the most important item on the car, the one thing you hope doesn't fail when you're traveling 100+ on the highway or as you're tearing up a canyon road.
& I meant that the tire should 'give'? Maybe more like break free. How many cars have broke their pumpkins on the drag strip cuz they had too much grip outa the hole? Many..
But that was just a thought. That maybe toooo much grip at the start will add additional wear. No doubt it will.
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First, thanks for the reply. This is exactly what I was looking for. Second, I wasn't trying to get smart with you at all. I just sincerely didn't understand your reply and was trying to clarify. Its tough to convey tone through text sometimes and I apologize if it seemed like I was being a jerk. I don't know anything about siping and don't know anyone who's done it before. Honestly, I don't know much about the science of tires either and the way it was described to me made it sound like an upgrade. The guy told me it would improve traction, extend tire life, and extended my warranty as part of the deal. He conveniently left out the part about decreased dry weather performance. That's why I posted the thread here; To get the inside scoop.
 
from the wikipedia page, seems like modern day winter tires already come pre-siped to a certain degree. this is one of those things that makes you wonder, if its that good for your tires, wouldn't the manufacturers have done it from the get-go? maybe after-market siping was good back when rubber tech was ancient but now with so much tech in modern day tire compounds, im not sure this would net any meaureable improvements. the tests results quoted in the wiki were done b4 i was born!
 
I have run both siped and non-siped tires on other cars. I live in AZ and was told that this would prolong their life due to more cooling. It made no difference. I was running 285/35/20s and 305/30/20s and both lasted about 18K.

i have not siped since.
 
tmerigold said:
I have run both siped and non-siped tires on other cars. I live in AZ and was told that this would prolong their life due to more cooling. It made no difference. I was running 285/35/20s and 305/30/20s and both lasted about 18K.

i have not siped since.
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Ahh, finally. Thank you sir. :tup:
 
tchuck said:
Your FX wasn't designed with any of this stuff either: Crawford V5 Plenum / TB Spacer / Stillen CAI / UTR CF Tube / NISMO Catback / TS ECU FLASH / GG 10wire Ground / 22 Gianelle V5s / Hankook Ventus ST RH06 / Eibach Pro Kit / GTSPEC Bracing: Rear, Lower Engine Tie, Mid Ladder / Stillen STB / Rr Sway / Mazzur M3 Rear Lip Spoiler / Psprt X50 / i-POD.G5
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tchuck said:
I wasn't trying to get smart with you at all. I just sincerely didn't understand your reply and was trying to clarify.
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No harm taken, but if that aint being smart, I dunno what is :confused:

Let us know how it works out for ya, cuz your review will help others when they get the sales pitch at the tire shop
 
gto said:
No harm taken, but if that aint being smart, I dunno what is :confused:

Let us know how it works out for ya, cuz your review will help others when they get the sales pitch at the tire shop
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I was trying to say that the reason I opted for the siping is the same as the reason you opted for your mods. Because we both believed them to be "upgrades". Apparently I was wrong about the siping but you asked why I would do it if the tire wasn't designed that way and at the time I couldn't think of a better way to explain it than to give an example. I didn't write it maliciously or with any other intention than clarity. If it seemed different to you, again, I apologize. I have no interest in being a dick or making you look bad.

Unfortunately I don't think writing a review would be much help because I've never run these tires before without the siping so I have nothing with which I could compare. I will definitely report back if anything crazy happens, but I doubt it will. tmerigold's review above was pretty helpful though...
 
FWIW, that makes 3 of us at least who thought you were trying to sound smart with that reply. Of course, this was not your intention, and like you say it is hard to tell tone through text.
 
Long term update for one of my favorite threads :p :

I had these tires installed (and siped) at 53,500 miles. When i pulled into my driveway this evening my odometer read 83,839 and the largest reading I saw on my tire gauge was 7/32 and the smallest was 4/32 on the wear strip. This has been a hard 30k on these tires. I've drifted on snow covered roads for three seasons, done awd fuse-less burnouts, and just generally driven the poor girl pretty hard. I'm going to reassess the wear again when I go in for replacements but i have to say I'm impressed so far - with the tires and the siping.

Also, I run 34 psi (air) year round.
 
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