What to change about the internals when going forged

R

raymond

Member
Location
Netherlands
Car
FX35 RWD
Oke i wanted to keep this to myself for a while and shout it out when i was done but aren't very formilar with F/I so need to do my homework before building this in.

I bought a complete VQ35 engine from a client of mine with a 350Z wich has a single turbo kit on from Turbonetics.
He drove around with the set-up for around 10K miles without issues.But when he wanted more Hp and turned up the PSI he Blew the engine. Overhauled it again with new rods....pistons and not a new Girdle ( in Holland we call it bridge ) but the guys who made the engine thoughend the OEM one as i understand.

He didn't feal well about it so sold the engine to someone else i know who wanted even more Hp so put on a GT35 turbo....AEM managment.....watercooled intercooler...fuel rails....Kinetix Intake Plenum...etc....
Thing is that tuning such a set-up here in the netherlands is not that easy. I mean, there aren't many people who know what they are doing.
And one of those tuned the ECU on the dyno wrongly and overheatend the engine.

Result....piston gone so need new pistons and needs to be honed again.

My idea is to run the original set-up wich turbonetics provide. New pistons.....haltech in and in the meanwhile we found a guy capable on tuning this thing.
I haven't bought the thing like AEM and Watercooled intercooler from him as these i probably do not need and are quite expensive.....
Do have the Kintetix intake Plenum...

I know i need to make adjustments to the piping and such.....and also thoughen my tranny wich i will do also.

But my question is:

1) What do you guys think of the internal things done already....would this be enough and if not,what would you suggest on doing more....??

2) The kit runs 6 Psi, but can i go some more like 8 or 10 with these internals...??

3) Should i keep the added fuel rail-return with this set-up as it's quit some work to feed these lines to the gas tank and such.they had 850cc injectores but the OEM turbonetics kit has smaller.
 
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I think Rookie could provide better answers on these but here's a couple I've read & heard around:

1) Whatever you do, tuning is the MOST important part. Don't go cheap on this & try to find somebody with a history of good tunes
2) Earlier Turbonetics turbos were only oil cooled and had seal issues (As far as I know).. You might want to check what turbo are you using for this build
3) Most of the good engine builds I've looked at had the main & head studs replaced by better ones as well. As I said, I don't know much about engine builds but if they've used the oem studs, I'd get them replaced as well..
4) You said this engine had two occasions? One blown and the other with broken pistons? Any damage remaining on the block?

I don't know how much this engine costs you or anything but if you seriously want to go some extreme FI, maybe getting a professionally built engine from a reputable shop (such as GTM) shipped to you will be better? :hmmmm:
 
EG3 said:
I think Rookie could provide better answers on these but here's a couple I've read & heard around:

1) Whatever you do, tuning is the MOST important part. Don't go cheap on this & try to find somebody with a history of good tunes
2) Earlier Turbonetics turbos were only oil cooled and had seal issues (As far as I know).. You might want to check what turbo are you using for this build
3) Most of the good engine builds I've looked at had the main & head studs replaced by better ones as well. As I said, I don't know much about engine builds but if they've used the oem studs, I'd get them replaced as well..
4) You said this engine had two occasions? One blown and the other with broken pistons? Any damage remaining on the block?

I don't know how much this engine costs you or anything but if you seriously want to go some extreme FI, maybe getting a professionally built engine from a reputable shop (such as GTM) shipped to you will be better? :hmmmm:
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I Pm'd rookie already but gues am nr 101 on the pm list so don't want to bother him too much :wink:
Found a guy here in holland who work for nismo for a long time.Now has a nissan tuning/workshop nearby me so he has the most experiance to tune.
The engine after overhauled need now again new pistons and to be honed as due to wrong tuning it got too hot. So am talking about one engine.
It'll cost me around 4K total ( engine / tubronetics kit / kinetix intake ) so for european standards not that much and so i can keep my own engine in case something goes wrong :glasses:
I pay more for only the new turbonetics kit with shipping and taxes then this whole deal so was worth trying IMO.

Going to `test`the turbonetics turbo as that works best on this set/up i´ve been told and selling the GT35 as that´s just to big for my use.

The main and head studs were also done and swapped for stronger onces.

Thanks Ege :tup:
 
A Garrett GT35(R?) too big for a 3.5 liter engine? I don't think so. Especially if it's a ball-bearing unit, I have no doubt a VQ would be able to spool it when 2.0 liter Evos and STis can. What are the specs on the 2 turbos you have available (T3 or T4, A/R, etc.)?
 
Thanks Guys,

But you need to be patient with me for a while as this is planned as a winter projekt.
I've got the engine, but want to do the tranny etc... at the same time as well...polish some parts and need the pistons and hone as well. Money issues :frown: makes me push this forward to the winter unfortunalty and i think it's the best season to do these things as i don't or nearly drive the FX in the winter.

Nick your right. :tup:Just had the pre owner of the engine here and he knows guite a bit more then me about this. It's a whole new area for me so am not into all the details yet. He said the GT35R would work just fine. What i ment was that with the T4 60-1 Ball Bearing Turbo from Turbonetics wich is in the kit is just fine for the Psi i'm going to run as i do not need the power of the GT35. That was what i thought. He says the difference between those two and how fas they spoon isn't that big so i can use the GT35....Honestly i do not know if it's an R or not. Know the guy who wanted more Hp bought 2 of them a couple of months ago, and sold one shortly after.
We send out the GT35 for testing and it was all fine. Also did i understand that the Piping was adjusted now already for the GT35 so that will go on i gues.:.smile:
 
Do you plan to run any type of an intercooler such as a front mount air to air intercooler? This will help reduce boost air temperatures and reduce the risk of detonation or knock. If the engine you plan to purchase was over heated then the deck and head need to measured to make sure they did not warp. If they did then they will need to be decked. What compression pistons do you plan to run?
 
Auburn_Fan said:
Do you plan to run any type of an intercooler such as a front mount air to air intercooler? This will help reduce boost air temperatures and reduce the risk of detonation or knock. If the engine you plan to purchase was over heated then the deck and head need to measured to make sure they did not warp. If they did then they will need to be decked. What compression pistons do you plan to run?
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Yes have got an intercooler on the kit. But your right as the pre owner who had this engine in a 350Z wich was a car for drift competition and demo's wanted more Hp and added a watercooled intercooler due to the fact that the Turbonetics intercooler didn't cool enough when drifting, finnally got in problems because the watercooed intercooler didn't work well in combination with a bad tune the engine got to hot.

The "Specialist" who now looked at it says only the engine need to be honed and new pistons, but am meeting for the first time with him next week and make sure i'll ask him to take a good look at that as well....thanks....!!

Do you mean with the "Deck" the engine itself...?? And warp does hat mean getting oval or such......again sorry for the question not that good in technical english details sometimes.

I'm planning on going for normal "high"compression pistons as i'm not planning on surching the borders again with this engine so aren't going to run high Psi's
I've been advised to take high as then the engine would spoon up a little faster...

Here are the parts wich are in the turbonetics kit:

INCLUDED IN KIT

T4 60-1 Ball Bearing Turbo
Spearco intercooler
Raptor blow-off valve
Evolution wastegate
Re-flash engine management
Walbro in-tank hi-flow fuel pump
Stainless oil feed line
Intercooler fan controller (G35 kits)
Taps for oil return and oil feed fittings
Polished stainless exhaust tubes with v-band connections
Black chrome aluminum intercooler pipes
Silicone hoses
High-flow air filter
TS-1 fully synthetic engine oil
6 drop-in Denso high flow injectors
T-bolt & V-band clamps
Nuts, bolts and fittings
 
raymond said:
......

Do you mean with the "Deck" the engine itself...?? And warp does hat mean getting oval or such......again sorry for the question not that good in technical english details sometimes.

.......
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I am referring to flatness of the engine deck or the top of the cylinders and the flatness of the heads. If they both are not perfectly flat you will not get a good seal between the head and the engine. This can be corrected by decking or machining off some material to create a flat surface. Any good engine machine shop will know how to check this and should check it anyways if they are honing the cylinders. Still will probably be a good idea to ask though.
 
I good machine shop will also use torque plates when they're honing the cylinders, ask about that too.

As for compression ratio, this is a much debated topic when trying to pick the "right" number for what you're trying to do. And there is no perfect number, it'll just fall within a range that's appropriate for your setup. The type of fuel will play a big role in what you ultimately decide as well as the efficiency of the turbo, intercooler, and even the engine.
 
Thanks guys will definitly write it al down and ask the guy when i'll get there next week. This helps me a lot....!!

I'm running 98 Octane here wich i can buy everywhere....think that will help also ;-)
 
Is it 98ron or 98oct?

The big downfall for the Turbonetics is the downpipe size. It's too small and creates a decent amount of back pressure. Back pressure = heat

I would run the GT35 over the turbonetics unit.
 
rookie said:
Is it 98ron or 98oct?

The big downfall for the Turbonetics is the downpipe size. It's too small and creates a decent amount of back pressure. Back pressure = heat

I would run the GT35 over the turbonetics unit.
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I looked it up and we have Shell Vpower with 97 RON. Aren't very formilar with the differences between RON and Octane though.

Hmm Downpipe. This is aspcially made for the kit. Could maybe lett a new one be custom made but do i need to keep other things in mind when doing that....??

Today a friend of mine came and suggested the Turbonetics turbo as the GT35 might have a bit more turbo lag...........why would you suggest the GT35 rookie....??
 
97 ron = 91octane. http://www.csgnetwork.com/octaneratecalc.html

without seeing the piping, the downpipe flange may have been modified for the GT35, it may still be the same diameter and routing as the turbonetics.

I run 2 GT30s, each is driven by 3 cylinders, a GT35 will be fine in overall lag. The less boost you have to use to get to a target power level the better.
 
White_Hair said:
That sounds a nice project. Keep us updated Raymond. :.smile:
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Will do :tup:

rookie said:
97 ron = 91octane. http://www.csgnetwork.com/octaneratecalc.html

without seeing the piping, the downpipe flange may have been modified for the GT35, it may still be the same diameter and routing as the turbonetics.

I run 2 GT30s, each is driven by 3 cylinders, a GT35 will be fine in overall lag. The less boost you have to use to get to a target power level the better.
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Yes the piping was adjusted for the GT35 so when i want to go back it needs to be adjusted again.
Doesn;t that theory depend on what you want....?? I mean running a smaller turbo wich spoons up faster is more for a setup with more torque then Hp's.....
I want my set-up to have more power in lower-end then in higher as top-speed isn't something wich i can do very often these days due to traffic.
But from traffic light to traffic light is much more fun......:tonguey:
 
Depending on the A/R of the turbine housing the GT35R could spool just as fast or faster since it's a dual ball-bearing unit versus a journal bearing (more friction) in the 60-1.

Quick question, does your GT35 have provisions for water cooling? Does your 60-1?
 
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